Talk:Empty House/@comment-35032720-20180419084109/@comment-32182236-20180511190845
Alright.. As this is getting meta, let's take some time to establish how far on the meta-scale the game's canon actually goes. That way, we have a clear divider on what is, and isn't canon. First off, let's look at the most meta-thing that is confirmed to be canon-The game mechanics themselves-This places Undertale as what we call an "RPG Mechanics Verse", a world where all the mechanics are a real, physical psrt of that world. Sans uses this to his advanatage, and Gerson demonstartes knolwedge of this as well:He KNOWS we can't kill him in the shop window, because fighting isn't an option in dialouge-You have to enter a FIGHT for that. The HUD vision is ALSO canonized, as Toriel hides behind a pillar, but from Frisk's perspective, if the HUD view wasn't canon, they should be able to see Toriel. (If Undertale was Realistic pokes fun at this.) So yes, Frisk does indeed see through the HUD.. And Toriel seems to know this..? The convieniently-shaped lamp makes it obvious that EVERYONE sees through the HUD's standards, as otherwise, Papyrus should have been able to see Frisk from his angle. This makes it clear that the HUD is how they see. Each character has their own HUD, centered around them. This already places us above levels of many, MANY theorists, who say all that stuff isn't canon and are only meant for us.. Bending canon itself just to keep their theory possible-Saying things we clearly saw happen didn't really happen.. But, no reference to the player as separate from Frisk has ever truly been made. No reference to someone controlling Frisk (other than Chara, who's not a human anymore-Fun fact, this is why Asgore doesn't recognize you as human in the Genocide Run) And while game mechanics like SAVE, LOAD, and even the HUD and all of its effects (turn-based combat) are established to be canon, never once was the world being a game even talked about-Especially since Flowey had the ability as well-Doesn't that contradict the whole idea that NPCs can't save and load? The power goes to the one with the most determination, not someone who exists outside of their realm. It's made very clear that choices matter, and we are responsible for the choices we make-Everyone is. But.. Sans was speaking to Frisk. It's THIER LV-We don't have any, as we do not exist within their world-We exist at a higher plane than they do. So, it's clear either the player doesn't exist, or he doesn't know about the player. After all, if Sans knew the player, he wouldn't be blaming Frisk for what we did. Well.. The error message, if canon, which HAS to be canon if we say players can canonically hack, shows Sans DOES know about the player. This creates a contradiction. So, the only explanation is that said player doesn't exist, allowing us to decanonize this ending, as it is only accessible through hacking (Kind of like wearing a "bepis" or the SPELL icon). Frisk (and sometimes Flowey) already fills the role of player nicely-The one who can SAVE and LOAD:And in Frisk's case, we play them, Frisk is supposed to be the player, just as Link is supposed to be the player. In conlusion, we can draw the line that divides canon from non-canon somewhere between there being a physical, canon HUD and the world literally being a game. It's probably an "RPG Mechanics Verse", though slightly more meta than that, considering that even SAVE files are canon here, unlike most classical examples of this kind of world. But nope, we're not treading into Playertale territory. So, let's talk about Chara. Chara possesses Frisk (only Frisk:If the player somehow is separate, they are NOT possesesed) at the end, and there's nothing you can do to stop it, other than flat-out hacking (Now we've reached the OneShot level of meta-ness, if we actually consider this a reasonable possibility) So, yeah. You're not above consequences. At least, not canonically. Frisk isn't above consequences.